We’ve been reporting on how the Garnet Fire, burning on the Sierra National Forest east of Fresno, has been spreading into a large area of old-growth forest in the Teakettle Experimental Forest. The Climate & Wildfire Institute, a think tank with connections to UCLA, got about $5.4 million from the California Climate Investments (CCI) fund to plan and implement a 3,000+ acre prescribed burning project here.The project was still in planning, and nothing had been burned before the wildfire arrived.
CCI money comes from taxing industrial polluters like major oil refineries or dairy operations for their CO2 emissions. The Teakettle grant project promised it would lock up carbon safely in large trees in the old forest, keeping it out of the atmosphere.
As of midday on 9/2/2025, the entirety of the Teakettle project area has burned. Lots of that carbon is now roaming the global jet streams.
We talk with CWI’s Scott Scherbinski and Bethany Hannah about their project, what might come next, and their thoughts on whether or not we can burn our way out of our forest health crisis.
AI Transcript, edited by Zeke
The interview discussed the Garnet Fire’s impact on the 3,000-acre Teakettle Experimental Forest, where the Climate and Wildfire Institute had been planning a large prescribed burning project, funded by a $5.8 million grant from CalFire. Despite extensive preparatory work, including surveys and fuel breaks, the fire swept through the area. Key issues discussed included the hoop-jumping process that CWI had been navigating in trying to implement the project, including environmental compliance planning, resource allocation, and the challenge of securing burn windows amidst competing priorities. The interviewees highlighted the importance of integrating research with practical application, fostering trust among stakeholders, and adapting to evolving fire management needs. They also emphasized the need for policy changes to facilitate effective prescribed fire implementation.
Introduction and Background of Participants
- Zeke Lunder introduces the topic of the Garnet Fire in the Southern Sierra and mentions the involvement of the Climate Wildfire Institute (CWI).
- Scott Sherbinski introduces himself as a Program Manager for CWI, detailing his background with the National Park Service and various nonprofits.
- Bethany Hannah introduces herself as one of the original employees at CWI, highlighting her background in fire suppression and her role in the Tea Kettle Project.
- Both participants discuss their roles in the Tea Kettle Project, including the initial conversations and the transition to program management.
Timeline and Challenges of the Tea Kettle Project
- Zeke Lunder asks about the timeline and expected completion date of the Tea Kettle Project.
- Bethany explains the grant timeline extending through 2029 and the challenges posed by weather, fire seasons, and regulatory constraints.
- Scott details the NEPA process, including surveys for threatened and endangered species and cultural surveys conducted around the project site.
- Scott describes the preparation steps taken, such as fuel breaks, floristic botanical surveys, and the RFP for heather tree removal.
Implementation and Burn Plan Development
- Zeke Lunder shares personal experiences with prescribed fire projects and the challenges faced due to institutional barriers.
- Scott confirms the advanced stage of the burn plan development and the selection of a Type 1 burn boss.
- Discussion on the risks and challenges of prescribed fire, including the presence of hazard trees and the impact of drought and beetle-kill damage.
- Bethany highlights the importance of research and the connection between research, practice, and policy in the Tea Kettle Project.
Impact of the Garnet Fire on the Project
- Zeke Lunder expresses frustration with the lack of support for prescribed fire despite the efforts of conservation groups.
- Scott emphasizes the importance of continuing implementation work and leveraging individual partnerships to build trust and long-term relationships.
- Bethany reflects on the historical context of fire management and the impact of past policies on current practices.
- Discussion on the physical limitations of prescribed fire windows and the challenges of aligning fire management with ecological goals.
Policy Change and Future Directions
- Zeke Lunder questions the effectiveness of policy changes in addressing the challenges of prescribed fire implementation.
- Scott and Bethany discuss the importance of storytelling and capturing lessons learned from the Tea Kettle Project.
- Zeke shares personal experiences with failed planning projects and the difficulties of achieving meaningful results with the Forest Service.
- Scott and Bethany emphasize the need for continued engagement and the potential for innovative approaches to overcome institutional barriers.
Carbon Considerations and Community Impact
- Zeke Lunder raises questions about the focus on carbon sequestration in fire management projects.
- Scott and Bethany acknowledge the broader impacts of fire on landscapes and communities, beyond carbon considerations.
- Discussion on the importance of preserving old-growth forests and the emotional toll of losing unique natural environments.
- Scott and Bethany highlight the potential for learning from the Tea Kettle Project and applying insights to future projects.
Empowerment of Fire Practitioners
- Zeke Lunder suggests the need for a curriculum to teach firefighters how to refuse assignments that are detrimental to landscape resilience.
- Bethany discusses the importance of empowering firefighters to act as advocates for resilience and suppression objectives.
- Discussion on the role of practitioners in influencing fire management decisions and building resilient landscapes.
Conclusion and Looking Forward
- Zeke Lunder concludes the discussion by acknowledging the challenges faced by the Tea Kettle Project and the broader implications for fire management.
- Scott and Bethany express optimism about the potential for future success and the importance of continuous learning and adaptation.
- Zeke emphasizes the need for honest discussions about the limitations of land management agencies in getting work done.
- The conversation ends with a commitment to share the lessons learned from the Tea Kettle Project and inspire further innovation in fire management.